looking alot better! wish i could have made it to the meeting. leaving for work before the sun is up and getting home after its set makes me being able to do things rather hard.
Tim B this is similar of what we were talking about incorporating to replace 2 of the three stairs, still leaving the steps as is near the hubba
Pic conveniently nabbed from the passport thread
That would be tops, especially with the ledge built in.
Looks amazing guys. Wish I could have been there!!
It would be interesting to see the results of the survey that was conducted by Moreland Council and the skatepark designers so we can see the supposedly factual consensus towards a clover bowl.
If the funds for the bowl are priority over a quality street section, the results of the survey would be important to justify this decision. The survey results are the opinion of a much broader section of the skateboarding community as opposed to a few consultation meetings, which have been conducted at completely impractical times for most people to participate in.
Fair enough point. I can only go off the consultations, people out and about at the parks and the like. I'm keen to see the revisions of the street section from the last meeting.
Burpless1 hit the nail on the head. Living in and knowing over 25 skaters in Brunswick myself I have not talked to one yet that is in support of a clover bowl. This thread has numerous Moreland locals posting in it and I am defiantly only seeing them focus in on the street section. I need to go back through but I can only remember one person pushing for a clover bowl. I am confused exactly how there was a consensus that such a odd bowl should be placed in an area dominated by street skaters.
It is impossible for most of us to attend meetings at those times to voice an opinion and help. My hat goes off to the guys who did! A few guys who did attend the original design meeting voiced that hardly anything they suggested was taken into consideration though.
After attending skate park meetings with councils and design companies for over 10 years I am not really surprised by much anymore but I would love to see the survey results as Burpless suggested. Surely the survey must have been conducted at some bizarre time when some tranny dawgs accidentally got lost on their way to Coburg? The only other explanation is that Jamish had one too many jugs of $10 specials at the Brunnie and suggested it as a joke?
Seriously though, how has this thread from page 1 not been a representation of what the people want? This feels a lot like Fawkner all of again.... Only a few very loud voices getting what they want while the majority go unheard.
At the meetings there was pictures that everyone had posted in this thread and you could put a dot on what you liked. There was lots of dots on some things that didn't make it into the first or second draft at all. I have said over and over again there is enough money to sort out the tranny and the street section properly, Nimbin was well under $400k. There was a large amount of dots on the tranny elements and different bowls as well as the street elements. There is a demand for both and a lack of good plazas which everyone agrees. I'm sure there is a record of that data from the votes.
I can see where this is going. One person (me I take it) being the only one in favour of a clover bowl and that's why it's there. That's a bit ridiculous isn't it? You are overstating my influence immensely.
If you didn't attend the meetings and are basing assumptions on what your mate that might have attended said perhaps it's not accurate.
Pretty much every picture in this thread was on the boards for a vote via the sticky dots. That is why I started the thread, encouraged people to post ideas, encouraged people to attend and informed and reminded people of the sessions. At the consultations and elsewhere I have stated my opinion is no more or less valid than anyone else's. I've stated in writing that I never want to get paid for my time.
Don't shoot the messenger huh?
Josh, it's nothing to be taken personally- you are doing a great job in getting the park up and running and creating community interest. It's just massive bowls aren't as utilised by the general public as obstacles that are more user friendly. A few hours at Frankston, Epping and even Coburg skateparks we can see how underutilised these bowls are. Maybe one or two people will have a roll in them, apart from that they are more like the abandoned vert ramps we see rusting in various suburbs. It would be great to have an international standard bowl in Melbourne for demos, but how often would it be used even in this capacity? Once or twice a year? It's a great idea to have varied obstacles and items at skateparks but how many people will actually utilise the whole park in this instance?
What is happening here is absolutely amazing.
Josh you're doing a great Job at facilitating this project and I have faith in your ability to make something good happen to Brunswick for skating.
However, What Scott is saying is spot on.
Realistically the bowl will get used once or twice a year on a competition level and maybe once a fortnight for 30 minutes by some bowl shredder, but other than that it seems like bowls like the one at Coburg as far as I’ve seen are just play pens for parents and their kids to have a little potter about.
It's a bit disheartening to read that the seeming desire here is to have a skate park where the bowl is the highlight and a bowl that is going to be some sort of monument to skateboarding in Melbourne. The bowl is the most expensive part of the park and it’s going to be inarguably the least used section.
Why not put that money into a decent mini ramp and smaller newer style tranny that we’re seeing in skateboarding nowa days. Make the park flow end to end with humps and bumps and banks and decent street stuff. Make a decent plaza. Listen to the people, because nobody as far as I’ve seen is putting up much of a fight to have a spectacular clover bowl. What a waste of money, resources and space.
I grew up at a park dominated by over the top tranny and a bowl that was way to big and pointless for the locals. the most I've seen gone down has been a commodore rolled down a hill into it and set on fire. Everyone i know in the greater brunswick area is about street skating and the odd quirky tranny hit. brunswick doesn't need a bowl-a-rama bowl at the moment a street league park is more on point then anything I've seen suggested. id like to see something L.E.S/carlsbad/stoner/D.I.Y style embraced. skateparks don't need to cost 400k
I understand you might be worried that the bowl will be a waste of money and space I don't think it will be unused. You've only got to look at what's happening in Newcastle and has happened in Bondi to see that if you build a big bowl kids young and old will skate it. In both these places there's skaters ranging from 8 year old girls upwards that regularly skate the 11 foot bowls. I recently skated St Kilda and the bowl was used the whole time and is bigger than parts of this bowl and only a couple of feet smaller than the biggest section.
True there was a time when a lot of skaters wouldn't touch a bowl but with guys like Grant Taylor, Jaws and Raven Tershy skating everything I hope people are more open minded.
I'm looking forward to a good street section and a good bowl, and hopefully we'll see some amazing all round skaters coming out of that park.
St kilda and Bondi are exceptions to the argument because they're both on the beach, high in foot traffic and are primarily tranny parks. We're talking Brunswick here. We're talking about crusty Albert street in crusty Brunswick, which is 2 train stops from crusty Coburg park which has a decent bowl that is hardly used. That bowl doesn't seem to attract new comers. You see, places like Bondi and St kilda attract all kinds because people are willing to go out to the beach and have a picturesque skate, or watch their kids skate while they throw their dog a ball on the sand. This is Brunswick, not Bondi. We want street.
^^^^^^^ exactly ^^^^^^^^
anyone been to epping lately? point cook isn't even that big but very very empty...
if there are some backers for a dirty big bowl maybe you could ditch the clover and just have a belco style bowl which would be half the space..
All of the points that A Pocket Yeti (Goretex), Bibby and Manilow are making are pretty much bang on. There are a handful of similar (while not clover bowls) throughout Melbourne and are all underutilised. I understand the need for diversity but all parks need to be user friendly not geared to a pocket of people that thought it was a great idea- albeit a small pocket at best. The location is everything, if there is nothing much else nearby (Newcastle, Bondi) of course people will skate it. As mentioned above these parks are on the beach and have a great outlook. Could the same be said about a semi industrial area of Brunswick? Have a think about what brings people to skateparks, the biggest area in a park should be the one that everyone will use- not the bowl demon once a month for ten minutes.
Agreed
Maybe it's a matter of size here folks. St Kilda bowl gets skated a shit ton by both street dogs who wanna give it a shot and tranny dogs for whom that is why they come to the park. It's a big bowl but it is still an manageable feat to skate it due it's size and layout. I agree that Brunswick is very much street dominated in terms of the skating population and that should be taken into account but a clover would still be great if we can find a way of making it something that is a part of this park and not just something that gathers dust up in the corner (eg. Coburg). Maybe the question we could consider is that if we did have a clover bowl alongside a great street plaza what would make you want to skate it?
Crotch, the simple answer is Frankston. It has both and the bowl is barely ever skated. Again St Kilda has a similar appeal as do Bondi and Newcastle, their location. If the clover bowl is built it'll more than likely become another statistic like every other bowl built in the area- a place for kids to play and practice their graffiti skills...
Maybe we could set up a survey to see what people think about having a bowl. Ask locals, neighbours and people who skate st kilda. There's seriously no point in having a glamourous bowl.
My 2 cents.....
I think having a bit of everything at a park can be a good thing, especially in a remote/regional area. Maybe not so in a city like Melbourne. It seems like 3 out of four parks these days is "bowl with a street course". Last couple built near me are that way and coburg is like that and so is Northcote (is that near brunswick? I dont know).
The issue with having bowl + street is you end up having a park with sub-optimum bowls and sub optimum street. In a fairly central city suburb where park proximity is closer (and transport quick/easier) It may be a better option to go all out in one direction. To me it seems it would be better to have a huge bowl complex in one suburb and an awesome/world class "streetish" park the next suburb over, rather than what seems to be prevalent the situation where every suburb ends up having a mediocre mix.
Looking at that new SA park on the front page makes me wish for something like that... which I think is what everyone is referencing when they say stoner plaza style thing. A mix of tranny, banks, street parts and flow... that mixed with a st kilda bowl scale clover would be a dream come true.
I think chasing something that's competition / demo standard and deep is the issue.
That's it exactly, St Kilda is Melbournes Bondi. As Drew pointed out where the designs have too much of a bowl and street focus the parks generally aren't thet great- apart from the mini Coburg isn't really worth skating due to poor layout and Northcote isn't much better. If you want an international standard park you need to build it with innovation (I agree the park on the front page looks like loads of fun!) and some thought. Alternatively you can build the monster bowl that is never used.
Drew just made a good point about good bowls being within short distance, I also made that point and it's true. Why does Brunswick need a bowl? Why? What justifies it? If kids want a bowl experience their parents are going to take them to St Kilda or Coburg or Northcote don’t you think? It's a nice day out for them, they're not necessarily going to favor Brunwicks 'world class' clover bowl just because it’s there... Give me a break.
The aim is to be innovative and create a skate park that’s unique. There’s nothing unique about a skate park with a bowl as a mantelpiece. All parks are being built to this standard. Let’s set a new a standard here. There’s a bowl 2 train stations away! And a 15 minute bus ride to Northcote away. UGH!
