Quote from Facebook:
"Jeff Grosso
My opinion doesn't really matter, cause I'm not Australian. But, I vote for the pool. Good luck!"
Like Grosso, the majority of comments are in support of the the bowl.
It's all quite clear what has happened. I've done some research today. The council has been under the impression that no one wants a bowl and to only build a plaza, not a park combining the clover and a decent street section. The council was unaware that the initial draft street elements were universally bagged. The designers have said there is only budget for one or the other (check the comments under the above photo on the Enlocus page) which means they have under costed the initial draft design. My view is this is the reason why they have not released the revised draft from the most recent consultation (the clover with a much improved street section)
So in stead of incorporating both elements we have the current divisive situation. This appears to be due to budget not demand, as there is demand for both. Now there will be more money burnt drawing up a new (cheaper) park. Why else would the pictured first draft not have been revised to include the changes at the second consultation?
It is being pitched to council as demand, it is budget. It's obvious.
Its a damn shame that cuts have been made to the budget and that both ends of the spectrum couldn't have been met. Having helped design a park with convic at my old local in Barwon Heads, you find it is definitely hard to cater to everybody's needs.
As much there are a lot of people who are in favour of the bowl, I have to say I take the other side pretty firmly. The majority of the people on this site see their favourite skaters skating all these unreal parks in California, Europe and even Sydney who besides not having a CBD park yet, still has more advanced street skating courses.
We have lots of parks that have street objects incorporated, and a lot that have transitions and bowls incorporated and its clear that we are in need of a world class version of both, rather than the old standard mash up skatepark.
The thing that stands out to me though, is if we are going to have a world class bowl for competitions etc, why does it have to at a skatepark, or even at this particular skatepark. Cant we get a committee organised for this separately? Bowls can be extended on to any park or exist not even at a skatepark, just on their own. And as harsh as it sounds, why do we have 'demand' for a world class bowl for competitions in Brunswick when Belco and Bondi already host amazing competions. Besides it being fun to skate for a lot of bowl shredders, i just don't see it as a necessity above a street plaza (for now!).
This grungy slightly outer suburb suits a street plaza down to absolute tee. Brunswick is such a sick hang out spot and the street plaza would be an epic addition. The kids, who are the majority in skateboarding, feed off street skating. And as much as I'm all for this bowl, I just think a complete street plaza is in order firstly. Especially after St. Kilda just got such a transition orientated park placed over that side of the city, it would be good to cater to the other side of the spectrum of skating on this side of the city.
This is assuming it is coming down to one or the other, because I'm totally down for both. I just think the plaza is a lot more necessary.
Also Josh, you have been doing an amazing job and I haven't been to any of the meetings to make a change to any of this. I hope this just outlines a little clearer in a more civil manner why people are bummed about the situation. No matter what happens, everyone will be grateful that you are the man behind a new skate facility in Brunswick!
And now if its a choice between the matter, if end up with a bowl that gets used 4 times a year in daylight savings time when the old blokes have time after work, one time including the world class comp when bucky lasek rocks up for a mctwist, over a street plaza that will get non stop usage.... Ill be pretty ticked
sometimes people need to be told what they want....good luck Josh. and the haters, love it or leave
Thanks Jack for the considered input. At the end of everything as long as people get what they want it is all that matters.
After speaking with council yesterday I was given the impression the whole consultation process was overidden and a plaza was going to be designed from scratch without final consultation, and the cause of this was a reaction to some negative feedback and budget constraints. This is incorrect and Enlocus are finalising a street+bowl option and a street only option for a community vote. These designs will not be final and there will be further community input before final drafts.
In hindsight I should have given Wade @ Enlocus a call to clarify before my last post. Wade out of courtesy would have called me in a similar situation. I was pissed off that the process had been undermined and overridden and it appeared to be a reactive move. This wasn't the case, instead it is intended to ensure that the designers are keeping in line with what the community wants, which strengthens not undermines the process.
I am fine to say when I have fucked up and an apology is needed and this is the case. I should have asked Wade for clarification before making a comment that could impact his business based upon incorrect information.
hello
Fuck you feggins. Fuck your bowl
The Brunswick, Melbourne and Victorian communities need this 3 leaf vert clover bowl.
Councils and communities are reaping the benefits of similar vert bowls at Newcastle, Bondi, Wellington NZ, Venice Beach USA, etc.
When the worlds best sportsmen and sportswomen demonstrate their skills at these world class facilities, the local youth is given unique community pride and the confidence to achieve their best - not only in their chosen sport, but in careers and in a healthy lifestyle. World class events may be rare and infrequent, but they inspire a community for years. Jeff Grosso has even expressed interested in this bowl. Melbourne has some world class skate bowl athletes - and some with promise, but they need somewhere practice and develop their skills.
The bowl design caters for many more user groups that a street course, including BMX riders, scooter riders and skateboarders. The bowl will also serve a broad spectrum of skill levels, including beginners, intermediate, advanced and pro. Other councils that have installed bowls have found the common age demographic ranges from mid primary school age, teenagers and adults right through to skaters in their 50's.
The bowl design encourages families to participate in healthy door activity together. This is evidenced by the last ten annual Moss Jam events (2004 through 2013), which have brought family teams together for the very popular "Fossil & Grommet" competition. Partnering with 4 different councils and the Victorian Skateboarding Association, MOSS Foundation's MOSS Jam events have raised funds to build clean water infrastructure in Africa since 2005.www.mosswaterproject.com.
The active adult involvement attracted by the bowl design also provides the community with passive supervision and positive mentoring for the younger generation.
For the sake of longevity of use of the community's significant financial investment and to maximise the best community outcomes, I recommend that Moreland City Council install this 3 leaf vert clover bowl at Clifton Park in Brunswick.
Rob Francis
President, MOSS Foundation
I agree with you Wedge.
Brunswick is exactly like those named cities. Great examples! It's beautiful beach scenery is only slightly overshadowed by the industrial buildings and commission flats.
We should defiantly give yourself, Renton and Grosso somewhere to demonstrate your abilities once a year. I mean... why bother even having a vote from the local community user group? You guys need somewhere to train! The local street skaters, who dominate the area, should be told what they need by South Eastern skaters who already have copious bowls in their area.
The Prahran and Riverside pro demos are great examples of the lack of inspiration from street events. No one even showed up for the Adidas, DC and Huf demos. Apart from the majority of the inner Melbourne skate community but they are just idiot kids.
Bowls do cater to more people. Coburg is a great example. The bowl is always buzzing. Well, with that one 6 year old who is sliding on his butt. The street course is a just a waste though. Packed full of skateboarders, scooters and BMXers. Such a waste...
I recommend that Moreland City Council has a vote at a reasonable time and lets the community decide what fits the area. Not listen to some guys completely disconnected from the Northern community with "horse blinkers" on dictate to suit their selfish wants.
If there is such strong thirst for this clover bowl it will get voted in and all this bickering can be ignored. I am sure you guys can arrange a bus load of Mt Eliza locals to come down and vote for it. That 1.5 hrs drive to where your new local training facility will be is pretty much with in walking distance.
Anyway, Mr Crook said it best without all the sarcasm and bitterness.
Excellent writing Christopher!
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure that consultation process that has been running since 2012 was mostly attended to by those from the Northern Suburbs...ie your local community. Anyone that bothered to show up would know that.
No one is stopping you from halving your political clout, by pissing all over the efforts of those that have for many years lobbied councils, all over Melbourne, and given up their own time at indeterminate consultation sessions, just to get skate parks that, where ever possible, and budget constraints aside, generally cater for all kinds of skateboarders doing all kinds of skateboarding. However, it probably is about time for all those that claim not to have been heard, to step up and take the lead for a change. Of course that will mean actually making an effort to lobby councils and attending the consultation sessions. And those that bother to lobby council, will be able to suggest "convenient after hours consultation sessions", in order to remove that "excuse".
The thing that I find really curious is that the opposition to the bowl is such that it does not appear to leave any room for any thing else other than a street park, or cater for anyone else other than "Street Skaters". It is as if no other form of skateboarding is acceptable or indeed authorised, to the point where "skateboarding culture" appears to have been re-defined in the minds of some.
On the other hand, those skateboarders that express support for the bowl have not expressed opposition to the street elements, because the skateboarders that can skate bowls really do want something for the Street Skater to enjoy, even if it is only so that they will not have to put up with being snaked by more and more skateboarders that will eventually "grow a pair" and suddenly learn how to skate everything.
To be clear my vote is for BOWL and STREET!
Just a reminder to the inner Melbourne skate community...
Something for All kinds of Skateboarders.....is on 12th April
Viva Prahran
http://www.skateboardingvictoria.org.au/news/viva-prahran-2014
Correction *****have not expressed the same level of opposition*****
"It is as if no other form of skateboarding is acceptable or indeed authorised"
Ahaha this is the very point I am taking the piss out of in my writing Neeburn. Read Wedge's post with the same opinion. Or any of the guys getting worked up on social media.
I just play the devils advocate to these hilarious tunnel visioned opinions. Why is it ok for them to act that way seriously but when I do with sarcasm I am so wrong?
Sarcasm just points out the ridiculousness of actually believing "a bowl design caters for more user groups" or that a street contest is less influential than a bowl contest. If we are going to supply MOSS statistics lets give a comparison to the street contests through the previous year that partnered with well over 50 councils, VSA, The Shed, The Park, Ramp It and SBA in Victoria alone.
I have lobbied and sat on council meetings for the past ten years and feel like they are "pissing all over my efforts" when they can't look outside their small worlds and actually think about the target demographic of the area.
Like I said, If it gets voted on the and the bowl is decided on than that's great. It is what the area wants. Is it fair enough to say nobody should be getting worked up over it because the consensus will be a reflection of the area?
Christopher,
I can fully see your side also, and thanks for the good read, and efforts with the lobbying.
Can I take it that your vote would be STREET and BOWL????
I like Christopher.
It would be much so better if this wasn't so divisive. As long as the consultation process is followed and it leads to a good park that the majority wants than it's all anyone can ask for.
Have any of you guys noticed that the 6 year olds sliding around in coburg bowl get really stoked when you skate in it.
I never really check the parks part of the forum so i definitely missed the majority of this design process. I made it down to the last meeting after seeing how the street section was looking and wanting it to be better. It definitely seemed at the meeting like some street aspects would be getting the chop after lack of room left in the street area, although it did look much better than the original. I think of street skating when i think of Brunswick and it would be sick to see all the pictures in this thread built in a solid street course. Perhaps a re-work would be good. At the same time i don't think it needs to be a completely tranny-less park like clifton hill. It doesn't necessarily have to be "bowl goes here- street goes here" though, a good mix of tranny and banks into street obstacles works best i think.
Like a lot have people have said, a big fuck off deep bowl that gets used once a year for a contest when st kilda just got built in the same fashion could be overkill. The only event St Kilda has seen so far this year of note is a four star demo where a mostly street orientated bunch of pros manualed and fs grinded their way around the park for the most part.
I agree Tim B about the street section at the last meeting. It was looking better though, the banks and banks with steps and simple ledges should make it into the different drafts I would assume.
Sure I would spend a lot of time at the new park regardless of the outcome. I would end up mostly in the bowl, I'm happy to skate anything and everything in reality.
I think people are really underestimating the demand and popularity for a proper depth bowl though. Regardless of the outcome it's a bit of a misnomer in my opinion to say the bowl won't be often used if it is to go ahead. I travel plenty throughout the state to larger bowls and they are booming. 12-50 year olds at Balnarring in force on most weekends and joints like Barwon Heads had 25 people sessioning the bowl last time I went, that joint is no joke. I love Coburg but it is not something you can easily learn to skate and work your way up to (plus it leaks terribly) like a 3 levelled bowl.
I wish it was a situation where the clover was to be built alongside a plaza people are stoked on. To me, after all the time that had led to this, was the clear goal of the project from the locals.
Again, whatever ends up being built I'm stoked as so long as it is voted for in a transparent and measurable process
Personally I don't think that Melbourne parks can really be compared to the Bondi and Newcastle bowls, there aren't too many parks in the vicinity of the latter hence why people skate them. There's no problems with having transition at a park, that's what makes it fun and cohesive. There is just no point in having a massive bowl for the sake of a few dudes- as noted numerous times in this thread there are loads of them in Melbourne plus many vert ramps that just aren't used. I don't think anyone can really get upset as Josh asked for comments and ideas for the park and people have responded, simple as that. Not everyone can get to consultations and this is just another medium that works just as well as actually being there.
Sure, but the traffic on this site is tiny compared to what it used to be. A lot of Melbourne skaters don't come here due to the relentless negativity. I have a big issue that the small amount (relative to the Melbourne skateboard community) of people that have posted negatively in here have had a large impact on derailing the whole process. Again, that the bowl won't be used or is for a few people is a misnomer in my opinion. Especially with the new gen.
Posting a few words on here should not carry the same weight if you haven't shown up, I'm not saying it has necessarily. I reckon people expect that it should. I can't understand how if you were a local and passionate why you wouldn't give up a small amount of your time.
Go have a look in the hobart park thread. That should give you an insight of a community working together constructively.
The traffic on the site may be less than it used to be but by the sounds of things this has also been spread on social media- is the traffic also decreasing across all those platforms as well?
You can discuss negativity but if you look through all the posts there are a lot that are positive in amongst the small amount of negativity. As you have stated above "Again, that the bowl won't be used or is for a few people is a misnomer in my opinion" that is your opinion. I for one would probably be more inclined to differ based on what I have seen at other parks with similar bowls. The truth is as is outlined in the first few pages of this thread- is you were lobbying for a clover bowl from the outset and unfortunately you can't get upset when people give their two cents worth when you have asked for it.
Regardless of how it turns out people will skate the park- if it was so have some of the obstacles suggested in the Hobart thread then that will just be a plus...
I suggest rather than on social media and this site we all meet up to have our say at the next meeting. It's down to the final stages. I'm fine with whatever gets built and have tried to put forward suggestions based upon what people seemed to want. There has been a lot of constructive and positive discussion in this thread for sure amongst the negativity. I am all for peoples two cents that is what this thread is all about!
I'm sure we are all on the same page that we just want the park to be what the majority wants. A vote on social media or on here should not be the measurable and transparent way to determine that.
